Support what..? by TJ Perry

Support what..?

Let me clear the air and say that up front I know that this is going to ruffle some feathers for a few reasons. One being that it’s me and nobody seems to be able to match my ability to kick up dust and stir the pot. What can I say? It’s a gift. Another more serious reason, and I say this with all due respect to those that hold the opposing viewpoint because many I consider good people and friends of mine, is that the position that I will argue against is something that many people hold very dear. The notion that riders need to get out there and support rider owned or BMX-centric companies runs deep with people all around the world from all walks of life. It appears to run as deep as the piety of those among us who are religious, and it boils the blood no less than some heated political debate between two people of opposing political affiliations. I understand that, and I understand that my views on the subject are on the fringe but I ask that you hear me out regardless of who I am and whether or not you disagree because like most things I say I feel it’s a point that needs to be raised.

Recently The Come Up, an online BMX publication, posted an article about DC shoes abandoning their BMX program and why it shouldn’t strike the BMX community at large as some mortal blow. That much I agree with completely. If DC wants to pack up and leave for business reasons, I say we part ways with some dignity and wish them luck on any and all ventures involving 13 year old mall-rats. I did say some dignity after all.
The points that were made that followed what I mention above though took a turn for a position that I’ve been arguing with people about for the better part of a decade. Adam talked about a few things that are noble in theory but ultimately futile in practice. In case you’re wondering what I mean I’ll provide a quote for context:

“BMX riders need to be proud to support real BMX companies. We need people who are willing to work their asses off to put BMX riding in front of the public through independent events like Simple Session and Texas Toast. Basically BMX riders need to remember to be proud to ride BMX bikes.”

As I said on the surface this makes total sense and is an admirable sentiment. Put money into the hands of companies that work hard to promote the sport. Look at the list of people and companies that throw their weight behind great events and those are the parts you should be running. There are problems lurking with this position because when put into practice you don’t always get desirable results.
I’ve asked for clarification from a number of different people over the years because it’s roughly the same argument that people put forward year after year when it comes to what we need to do to improve the sport. I’ve never once gotten any clarification outside of vague often cryptic responses and outright dismissal from those I’ve asked. So I’ll pose a few of the questions here and see where it leads us.
First off, while it is great that people should support companies that support the events and riders that get paid to ride for a living, what benefit is it to the consumer if the companies that do all this supporting are completely worthless? Remember power balance? They got nailed with a class action lawsuit for 57 million dollars for claiming that their products had even an iota of scientific research put into them to back up the claim that they enhanced performance. If memory serves there was a period where they were actively involved in supporting contests and maybe even a few riders. Should we just hand our money over to companies that are actively trying to defraud the public?
Maybe that’s an extreme example so I’ll offer a few more, but in the hypothetical so that I don’t step on too many toes. If there is a company that sponsors a major BMX/flatland contest and they make parts that are altogether worthless, why should any consumer invest in their products? Why should people pay for sub-par quality because this company sponsors events? What if there is another company that produces incredibly high quality components but doesn’t invest in say, Texas Toast or Voodoo jam? The company that produces the better parts will fold and the company with the lesser quality product line will thrive.
I’ve been told that because I don’t buy a certain company’s products, I don’t support them. I’ve also been told that because I have no brand loyalty, I don’t support BMX. Why? I think on the whole that makes me a smart consumer that actively goes out of his way to find things that work for him and in the process the companies that make the parts I buy are rewarded with my business. This is how every single business on the planet works at its most fundamental level. You make good products, and the buyers will come provided they know about it.
I got into a discussion/argument about this with Jim Mckay and he could not define what he meant by supporting BMX. I questioned and probed and did my best to figure out what his definition of support was and couldn’t come up with anything. I’ve had the same conversation with other people that lead me through the same dialogue over and over again ending with the other person getting upset and leaving the conversation all together.
If the answer to the question of “what does it mean to support bmx?” is so simple, then why is it so incredibly difficult to get an answer out of the people that espouse such a viewpoint? I wish I could answer that, but I can’t, and the question will remain unanswered until someone eloquent enough comes along and provides an explanation. I highly doubt this will happen, but I remain hopeful even though that may come off as disingenuous to everyone reading.
I do want to support BMX, and I feel like I do in my own way. I ride, I go through parts, and I buy new ones. My buying decisions are based off what I feel my needs are today or what they might be tomorrow. Consumers should have no obligation to keep a company afloat. If a company isn’t making good products, they will go out of business because nobody will buy their parts. That is simply the way of things and no amount of good vibes will ever be able to fix that, or sustain a failing model of business in the long run.
What people need to understand is that the vast majority of what goes on in the business world of BMX is completely out of the consumers hands. Odyssey was a joke of a company until they started putting out products that the market responded to and actively sought out, and now they’re one of the biggest brands in BMX. Nobody that I can think of could possibly touch the diversity of their portfolio, or the overall consistency of their quality. But there are bigger fish than Odyssey, and they’re the ones that determine what events are available for you to go to when you “support” anything.
Flatland was in its death throes after it was dropped from the X-games. We had absolutely nothing, except for an obscure sponsor that was already making waves overseas: Redbull. They supported the BMX worlds and I remember as a new rider what in the hell a Red Bull was and what it was doing on the contest floor. Energy drinks were not a thing then. They sure as hell are now.
Without the support of larger companies like Redbull, and now Monster among a few others, contests post X-games would have dwindled to nothing and we would be in a sorry state of affairs. No flatland company has the capital to hold a contest on the scale of the events that the energy drink companies have backed. That being said, if they dropped out tomorrow out of lack of interest and every bmx rider in the country boycott every energy drink company, they wouldn’t lose a dime. We have no buying power when it comes to markets larger than our own. We rise and fall with the tide, and when it goes in a handful of riders at the top prosper and smaller companies pop up, and when it goes out both of those groups dwindle.
Redbull only sponsors our events because they make money hand over fist and you can’t have Travis Pastrana jump docks in San Francisco every day of the week. The one reason, the ONLY reason, that any of the larger companies take an interest in us is not because anyone there really loves what we do, it’s because they have money to play with and we’re a cute little diversion. We’re nothing to them but a tax shelter. They give us money and then write it off. The benefit being we get a sick contest and oodles of prize money, but it’s a drop in the bucket to them.
So that’s it, if those guys fold and take off we are utterly boned. Maybe someone will take their place, maybe not. The point is that no matter what BMX companies do, the sport will always rely on outside support from sponsors with coffers that dwarf our entire micro-economy. We cannot hold a candle to the wealth that they bring and we will never be able to. This is especially true of flatland. We are completely helpless and by now we should know it.
As helpless as it is a call to arms in support of something that in the end means nothing will only hurt us. People will always support BMX in their own way, or they will just stop riding. If you want to support BMX then simply keep riding. If you are already deeply enough involved to be reading this, or to take an active interest in the comings and goings of our, for lack of a better term, heard of cats, then there is absolutely nothing that you need to be told. You already buy parts. You already spend money. You can make up your own mind as to what company will best suit your needs, and the ones that don’t will either find a different customer or they will fail.
The death of a brand is often seen as a sad state of affairs. I used to see it that way too until I realized that its existence was only being sustained by a minority of people that either threw money at a lost cause (Ie: support BMX!) for no reason, or it didn’t fill anyone’s needs. The people who tell you to support companies are making an emotional plea that in the long run will not keep those companies afloat, and ultimately your dollar will be sucked into the void right before the door closes and they dissipate from our economy. It will have been for naught, and the sport will be worse off because of it.

Think about all that money disappearing into thin air and you will understand why I believe “support BMX” is just about the dumbest most counter-productive sentiment anyone could hold in our sport. That money could have been put to better use by riders choosing the best parts to meet their needs instead of mindlessly wasted on nothing, but that’s where this philosophy can lead you.
The alternative, which Jim hinted at, is that we’re already doing our part by buying what we need. I buy tires because my lot sucks, so that means I support Odyssey. Fair enough, but if that’s true why do we need the sermon about support?
I don’t know. Nobody in the pulpit seems to know either. That’s very telling, and something to be kept in mind when someone makes the assertion that our sport is failing because it doesn’t get enough “support” from BMX riders riding BMX parts when the alternative is not riding at all.

TJ

98 thoughts on “Support what..? by TJ Perry

  1. “My buying decisions are based off what I feel my needs are today or what they might be tomorrow. Consumers should have no obligation to keep a company afloat. If a company isn’t making good products, they will go out of business because nobody will buy their parts. That is simply the way of things and no amount of good vibes will ever be able to fix that, or sustain a failing model of business in the long run.”

    To me this is very obvious, the consumer (flatlander) can go where he or she wants according to their taste,why should anyone buy a product just for the sake of it. With regard to DC pulling out, the only people losing out are the riders that were getting a paycheck, but almost all those riders will fall straight into another paycheck from another shoe company. Theres no brand loyalty there they are supporting themselves and you can’t blame them for that.

    Bang on point about Odyssey, the brand has totally revamped itself in terms of reputation.

  2. Having worked in the industry for the last four years I have definitely had my eyes opened.
    The last line of Adams article sums it up for me:

    “We can’t leave the future of BMX in the hands of corporations who don’t care about us. I can’t tell you exactly what to do, but we all need to do something.”

  3. Your argument shows very clearly your lack of understanding an appreciation for the sports history before you stepped into it, TJ. The reason why no one is able to answer is because it is not the simple answer you request and is a broad as it is deep. We simply don’t have enough time to explain it to you, so we get frustrated and walk away. I don’t think there is a single person you have talked to that doesn’t really want you to get it. Lets face it, I’d rather ride then talk about it. Or I’d rather actually do something about supporting flatland then talk about supporting it. If you were here we could talk for hours about it and maybe I could get you to see some of it. maybe someday. I would love to.

    Also very clearly, you missed the point on some of it. I don’t think anybody is saying buy crap parts from a company just because they support bmx. What I do think they are saying is not to just blindly hand over money to a company that is just around to leach money off a sport that belongs to us as riders. Buy from companies run by riders and for riders because you know they care about the sport. Or buy products from a company that actually contributes something to our sport and doesn’t just take. You’re probably right, red bull doesn’t give a smack about us. Neither did Super Socco or Mountain Dew back in the day. (you didn’t think energy drinks were new to bmx did you?) If you don’t think they contribute, quit buying their product. Think they are doing harm to our sport? Stop buying their product. Are they going to go under? No. But maybe they will stop leaching of our sport. The sport that those before you kept from becoming an obscure fad in history and claimed it as our own. Its a moral stand against companies that look at us and see dollar signs. Will it make a difference? Maybe, maybe not. But it’s a lot better than being fatalistic and throwing our hands up in defeat. See you missed the part of history where bmx as a whole was completely on life support and was kept afloat by a few loyal parts companies and even fewer rider owned companies. You cant understand the answer, because you don’t understand the whole picture.

    I tend to be somewhat of a defender of yours actually, but I see very clearly that the reason you don’t understand the sentiment and point behind “support companies that support bmx and/or rider owned companies,” is you only fully understand half of the sport’s history. That is, the latter half. It’s very clear you have no understanding of the first half and why we have rider owned companies in the first place and why so many, particularly us that lived through the first half of that history, feel passionately about defending our sport against interlopers looking to make a fast buck off us.

    I would sugest getting into the history of bmx that came before you yourself and learning about where the sport came from, what it has been through and what it has survived. Then you may start to get it and see why is such a complexed answer.

    As for Odyssey, to me they started out ok. They weren’t the greatest parts in some areas, but they weren’t the worst either. About mid 90s they seemed to go off the deep end with some odd stuff. So did everybody else though. They obviously recovered from that since then and are making better parts now than they ever did before.

    I dont know TJ. Someday I’d like the conversation in person. In text though? Too much time spent on a computer. It already an occupational hazard for me simply because of what I do for a living; I do plenty of that already. I want to ride.

    Bottom line: Know about the companies you’re buying from and decide for yourself if you feel comfortable supporting them based on that knowledge.

  4. I agree with TJ totally, riding your bike supports BMX!
    I have rode for 30 years and the only loyalties I have ever had are to my BMX!
    Then last year I started the website and I have seen the BMX industry in a very different way over the last 12 months!
    Some parts of it I do not like at all and I sometimes wonder why I am bothering to make the effort, but then I have great days also, which makes it feel worth while. When I see the parts that I have brought into the UK in photos on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, that’s a good feeling
    People do have loyalties to brands, I have never been like this myself except for maybe GT and Haro years ago.
    The only other problem I have really is not having enough time to ride. Although i’m not the best flatland rider in the world, I enjoy it and I enjoy being part of the BMX family. Especially in my local area where I am now seeing more kids taking flatland riding up and that is just awesome.
    They are the future of the sport. One last thing though, I have never liked riding in DC shoes anyway! Get some Etnies, Vans or a pair of Element!!

    • @Scott – Different strokes for different folks as they say, somethings need to be said though. It’s a good discussion that needs to be had. Hopefully some good comes of it. Or at least gets people thinking.

      @Brett – I’ll be sticking to my adidas, they are the best shoes for me. I had a pair of Etnies for one trick once…

      @FlatSquirrel – Thank you for your efforts with the online store, it has done a lot of good for the Uk scene! Long may it continue!

  5. My first thought when I read the original article is that I tried to ride in a pair of DC shoes ages ago. They fell apart in two weeks. I have bought them for my kids, less than ten years old, and they blew them apart in less than three weeks. They were just being kids, not BMX’ers! I gave up on DC shoes a long time ago because the quality of the product didn’t work for my needs.

    I’m glad DC helped riders pay their bills and offered them opportunity. Dropping their team makes no impact on my life or riding directly. They lost my business years ago. I feel for the riders who are losing a paycheck and sponsor but things are bound to change. It happens all the time. Riders need to be the brand the sponsor wants to be a part of, not the sponsor being something the rider wants. Same thing goes with BMX. We, the BMX community, have to make BMX something other people want to support.

  6. TJ!
    I think you make a few good points. One thing I don’t quite agree with is the value of BMX, or Flatland to a company like Redbull. While on one hand their business doesn’t change whether all BMXers world wide keep or stop buying and drinking their beverage, these core sports in general have a big value to their image. Quite simple: if it didn’t have a value to them, they wouldn’t pay for/support it. So while I considder us lucky to have a few Redbull (and other energy drink) suported events and athletes, I don’t believe we should or have to give ourselves away for free. And I don’t think we do. And from watching business insiders from the sideline I do think they care at least a little about our sport and the athletes. Just don’t forget, it’s not a charity, it is a business. One with a very, very good concept if you ask me, and one that we do profit from.
    I totally agree on the whole “buy what works best for you” argument. If everyone was smart enough to do that there would be a lot less sponsored riders I think. Maybe…
    Mike S.

  7. “support BMX” is just about the dumbest most counter-productive sentiment anyone could hold in our sport”

    Right on.

    A good example is the whole freegun underpants thing. I was called a “hater” and was told “i didn’t support flatland/bmx” because I thought freegun made a lame uninspiring product (its underpants for christ sakes). People have loyalties to brands no doubt, but if a company makes a shit product or one that doesn’t cater to someone, i don’t care how much “support” it lends to bmx, I am not going to spend my money on it. Riders already give other people crap for not running certain parts brands even now too. And things like underpants and what parts other riders run has absolutely zero for the thing that fuels our sport the most, actually riding your goddamn bike.

  8. I agree with Scott. Seems this belongs elsewhere. But I love this site because it “supports” the people that ride and documents their progress. It is a POSITIVE part of the “worldwide community.” To support your decision to post this I will give my perspective. My definition of supporting BMX is simple. Support other riders. #STOPHATING . #2centsFromAweasel – I was in Cali for my cousins wedding 3 years ago. Terry was premiering a video at Fat’s house. I met Koit at a redbull event (fight with flight) a lil while prior, he and my brother had been talking to me about getting bike, I did. I called Koit while I was out there, he invited me to the Globe. I saw a sick session – Todd Carter, Bobby Carter, Sean Fontenote, Jamie, Terry, Ed Nussbaum, Bo Wade etc etc !! I had no idea this was going down. Koit asked Fat if I could kick it and watch the video. I did. ALL POSITIVE VIBES. These riders actually take the time to say what up at contests and jams, notice progression, and encourage me. This is support. I didn’t mention buying a single product. But when I do need a new part, if a choice is narrowed down to a company Terry Rides for VS a unammed company, or Bars with a certain amount of sweep I want similar to a brand Chad reps VS another company, of course Im going odyssey/flatware and S&M/Intrikat everytime.

    If it wasn’t for other riders I wouldn’t be riding. In my opinion. Support from within will help the sport to grow.

  9. I just don’t understand all this “doom and gloom” about the state of flatland. Having been through the “dark ages” of BMX (89-94 or so) where the bottom fell out and there were few sponsors, contests, media outlets and NO MONEY, we(as in riders) made it just fine. If you ride flatland, or BMX in general, it’s in the heart and not the economy or companies of BMX. That’s not what dictates BMX. BMX happens when you ride.

    With that said, I do try and support riders efforts in BMX. I like to think of it as supporting riders rather than companies though. That doesn’t mean I would buy a product I don’t like or need, but if they have some products that fit my needs, and it’s a rider owned company…it’s all the better.

    Effraim, I support Flatmatters! Good site to check out!

  10. E it’s great you have the guy you love to hate write this up. TJ is very opinionated and makes good on this write up. This article does belong here, where else would it go.
    Keep up the good work!

  11. “I got into a discussion/argument about this with Jim Mckay and he could not define what he meant by supporting BMX.”

    That just isn’t true TJ. I described it multiple ways and you essentially ignored every one of them. Also, to say that supporting BMX is “dumb” and “counter-productive” is just crazy, in my opinion. If we don’t buy quality products, or do any other thing that has a direct impact on the livelihood of a BMX company aside from “liking” them, how can that possibly help a company survive?

    For some reason, you keep wanting to put my positition of support up against some hypothetical company that makes garbage, and I don’t understand why. To show support, buy the stuff if it works for you – such as tires. Tell your friends about the products. If the company you support puts out a video that you enjoy, share it with other BMX riders. Go to events that said good company sponsors. There are a bunch of ways to show support. I’ve already said most of this.

  12. This article is great to have posted on here. It showcases the thought that each rider has at the begining of their purchasing conundrum. The people that don’t like this on here are still aware of the sports issue but just want to promote good images.

    One flatland event I was incharge of organizing I as granted $10,000 to run and plan the event by the supporter. Over the years bmx companies have given me overstock Dvd’s, shirts, stickers, grips and small hard goods. Bmx companies, but more interested in flatland, are always gonna be supportive in flatland. This is mainly sending a banner or $100 worth of product. A product is the cheapest and best thing for a company because it has there name on it and it associated with the event. Sending a check means the participants might not know they gave money or that they were even associated with the event.

    Listen up!! Flatland is a micro organism in the world of sports. We can sustain by eating the residuals of other small companies and have been for years. Until flatland becomes a big sport like soccer, we won’t get corporate supporters consistently and in variety.

    Though the supporters might not be ran by a fellow flatlander or have anything to do with biking, its their enthusiasm and interest in our sport that brings us up and builds stronger ties. Yes it Looks good to have sponsors in our realm, but we won’t grow if we continue to drink from the same sources. I support companies that believe in our sport and I feel like contribute to our overall goal.

  13. Well articulated TJ. So refreshing to hear from someone that actually “thinks” for themselves and does so logically. I’d like to read more “sound” argument and reasoning on the subject from others too.
    I’ve had this conversation with local bmx bike shop owners and riders about whether a riders money would be better spent at local bike shops who put money, events and sponsorships back into their local bmx scene or spending their money at the “walmart” of bmx; “Dan’s Comp”. -Cash

  14. For those that don’t want this article here: You are entitled to your opinion and that’s totally fine. It also will not change a thing. I only mean to say that your positivity is a drop in the bucket that will not undo matters way outside of your control. Idealism will not save the sport. Positivity will not save the sport. Clever marketing and economics will.

    I understand Shauns point about flatmatters being a positive mark on flatland giving a way to showcase videos and news from all around, but it’s not going to move mountains because it’s relatively insulated from the outside world. I think a case could be made that it even hurts because people would rather watch edits than go to contests, but there’s no real data or numbers to back that up with.

    As I said, I understand that people want positive vibes. I totally get that. It’s just not going to save us from ourselves.

  15. “I want similar to a brand Chad reps VS another company, of course Im going odyssey/flatware and S&M/Intrikat everytime.”

    If those companies made bad products, which they don’t, would you still buy from them? If so, how does that help the sport in the long run?

  16. I think a good example of this dilema was Colony and other street brands trying to make flat parts. Alot of people screamed for the community to buy them in the beginning in hopes that they would support us and develop better parts in the future, but they didnt. Colony didnt do they’re research when it came to products, and we bought so many dejavu frames in the beginning that they had no incentive to make better parts in the next series of parts. They just put out the same parts with different colors. But they’re bars were way too small and they’re frames and forks too weak, and the whole thing ended up being a waste of money.. and now they don’t want to get back into it..

    • I must say I am a bit surprised at some of the reactions to this, I see this as healthy debate to be had, which belongs on Flatmatters! One of my first articles ever on FM 4 years ago took discussed, scuffing vs pumping. Now you have a rider like Sam Foakes taking the “pumping” technique away from this riding, thats evolution.
      Besides documenting what is going on in the scene, it is important to take a look at things in a critical way. If a discussion can help improve a situation, then it is worth having.
      In my eyes, thats the only way things improve. Being silent doesn’t help, it only inflates the problem at a later date.

      @Mr.Archon – The flatland market is saturated, Colony’s move does not surprise me.

      “Idealism will not save the sport. Positivity will not save the sport. Clever marketing and economics will.”

  17. Same thing for Eastern when they created the “Tramp” frame and that green bike for “flatland” we thought people should buy them in hopes that eastern would start supporting flatland again , but they were trash parts. and no one should have ever put money on them ( if they did).

  18. S&M is doing it differently and doing it right. The intrikat frame bars and stem are very well designed and people buy them. You don’t need to tell anyone to purchase those parts. They’re high quality, well designed, and what people want. It practically sells itself.

  19. i try only to buy from rider owned companies or companies i know have been around in the bad times and good times of bmx and that make good/lasting products, like s&m,standard, gsport, odi, profile etc…

    being a early 90’s rider i saw alot of companies producing crap disappear and rider owned companies appear making quality products designed to last

    as for the whole redbull/monster thing, if they disappear then so be it, bmx has seen big sponsor companies come and go, people may no longer get paid to ride or have massive contests being held

    aslong as people ride bmx for the fun and enjoyment then thats all that matters, some of the biggest uk comps were sponsored by bike companies before redbull/monster came along, the original backyard jams and king of concrete had 100’s of entrants and 1000’s of spectators and all before the internet was born

    bring on the bmx revolution, have a cull of all the crap and start afresh, the sport may get smaller/have less money in it but it will be a whole lot healthier

  20. The “positive” aspect I feel would work best in my local community. Steve and I are the only people riding flatland in Buffalo. Annoying as it is, kid rolls up on his walmart bike asking about wheelies … I’m not going to move mountains thats for sure, but if I talk to the kid, (tell him to go to FM 🙂 help him learn how to work on a trick, he learns it, gets hooked, his friends want to learn … you can see what Im saying. gotta start somewhere.

    @TJ say that kid was me. I rolled up to rider that got me into the sport, repped a “bad” company. so I got rid of my walmart bike and got a complete from that company. It was trash, the product was bad, I wouldn’t buy their product again. I feel that would still help the sport in the long run because now we have another rider that will be purchasing flatland specific parts and hopefully become part of the “community” and push progression.

    Obviously if there is a local scene the situation would be different.

    I would love to have more insight on what goes down in Japan. I have seen edit after edit of countless riders, even schools, a kids class, female riders etc. Flatland is there. So what do the bike shops in Japan do ? Do riders there order online or “support the local bmx shop” ? obviously with a much larger customer base it would seemingly make sense for shop owners to actually have flatland specific parts in the shop.

  21. I never implied that we should collectively support anything for the sake of supporting it, only. I don’t believe support or promotion for products and companies that don’t make quality, useful products helps anything, either. If a product is good, it will sell. If it’s not good, it shouldn’t. That’s the natural order of things and I just want to be clear here since I was referenced in the article. Support can take many forms, such as buying the products that work well. You can show support by associating yourself with the products, either in words, media, or actions, amongst others in the world of BMX; specifically, those whom the product is marketed towards (riders); e.g. if someone asks one what bars they are using and they say, “These are ___. They work really well for me. I use them because___.” That is an example of support. I agree with a lot of what TJ has said here, but not everything.

  22. What you’re talking about has nothing to do with the article I wrote though Shaun. I’m not saying everyone should be a gruff elitist who shuns new blood. On the contrary! I think people on the ground should be helping those that show an interest. I’m only talking about purchasing habits and forces at work that are larger than you or Steve.

    The article isn’t mean to be some ba-humbug mentality to helping riders because that’s something that everyone agrees should continue. It’s a totally separate issue from the economics, which is all this article focuses on. I think showing the same kindness to a company that you would to a new rider is a bad thing, and should be distinguished from brotherly charity.

    I also think companies actively capitalize on the good graces of those who want to help the sport and I believe that is wrong. It’s no different than a politician telling everyone how religious they are in order to win the votes of religious people in the public. It’s just not something people should be taking into consideration when making a decision about who they want to support.

  23. My point is, who isn’t already doing that Jim? Who isn’t saying “These bars work well/don’t work well” when someone asks about them? Everyone already does that so there is no need to tell people to do anything different.

    As for supporting companies by association, you’re just talking about marketing for free. I don’t think that’s a good thing for the reasons I outlined in the article. If you disagree then explain how and where I’m wrong.

  24. Shaun, what you’re talking about has nothing to do with the article I wrote though Shaun. I’m not saying everyone should be a gruff elitist who shuns new blood. On the contrary! I think people on the ground should be helping those that show an interest. I’m only talking about purchasing habits and forces at work that are larger than you or Steve.

    The article isn’t mean to be some ba-humbug mentality to helping riders because that’s something that everyone agrees should continue. It’s a totally separate issue from the economics, which is all this article focuses on. I think showing the same kindness to a company that you would to a new rider is a bad thing, and should be distinguished from brotherly charity.

    I also think companies actively capitalize on the good graces of those who want to help the sport and I believe that is wrong. It’s no different than a politician telling everyone how religious they are in order to win the votes of religious people in the public. It’s just not something people should be taking into consideration when making a decision about who they want to support.

  25. Shaun,

    There are bigger problems in japan than just keeping people riding. The politics of the Japanese flatland scene are so much more complicated than what goes on anywhere else.

    There’s a reason why so many 430/Ares sponsored riders see their way into the top spots at KOG while other “underground” riders don’t ever make a dent in the line up of usual suspects. On the surface their scene might appear healthy, but it has problems of its own.

  26. Here is an example of why I think that “marketing for free” is not always bad. Let’s say that a production company wants to film flatland. They make a video, and they pay the rider really well. Based on the success of the video, they may want to make more, and pay more riders to shoot. The video is absolutely fantastic. By your argument, sharing this video with friends, or having it posted on websites such as this falls under the category of “free marketing”. Without that “support”, the video will flop, and the company will lose interest. Sites like Flatmatters support flatland, and I support that. Am I wrong?

  27. Being kind to a new rider also has nothing to do with what I’m talking about in my article. I think it’s entirely a good thing and totally separate from the point I’m making.

  28. Jim,

    If the video is fantastic then the nature of the internet will take over and it will be shared. There’s nothing that you need to do or say in order to make that happen. It’s completely out of your control and telling people about it will have very little effect if any at all.

    You’re wrong, but you’re not at the same time. I understand your perspective, but you’re giving the community too much credit here. There are certain things about the way the community distributes information amongst itself that we just have very little control over. Take Moto’s 3 minute link for example from ground tactics a few years back. It blew everyone away. Nobody needed to tell me to spam facebook with it a few years back. Nobody needed to tell anyone to do that. Moto just had to put it out there and the natural order of things followed.

    So while I understand your premise, I disagree with the proposed mechanisms you attribute to its function.

  29. Random thoughts on this thread:

    Every company has to be financially viable in order to survive, so at the end of the day it is business. If it wasn’t they’d be in bankruptcy. This is a reality worth keeping in mind. Companies are not charities and cannot be.

    Most companies who “support BMX” do it for marketing – it is their way of advertising and they do it because it benefits them and the sport. I don’t want to be cynical and this may be a dim view, but most of them “support BMX” because it suits them because of what they get out of it.

    Having said that, any company focused on BMX or flatland that doesn’t support the sports has no brains (advertising or marketing sense) and probably won’t be around very long. Riders just won’t be connected to them.

    Flatland is a very cool sport with very talented riders. Red Bull supports flatland because by associating themselves with it, it adds the ideal persona to their brand that they strive for. They’ve been smart enough to figure it out. Red Bull knows how to market their product very well – which is why they are where they are – they are not just throwing money around.

    Someone like Matt Wilhelm does so much for the sport. He makes flatland cool and has exposed how many young people to it?

    As to the future of flatland, I think one of the big questions, is how do we market and expose young people to the sport and help them get started? (Companies such as Red Bull help the sport -huge- in this way also.) How do we give them something to dream for and a goal? They are the future of the sport. We need a website dedicated to helping people get started?

    Young scooter riders may be an awesome pool to migrate to BMX in a few years when they grow up a bit and scootering fades.

  30. My larger point is that that sort sharing of the Moto video you mentioned, is important. No, I don’t think it’s necessary to “tell you to post it”; what I am apparently not getting across is that the sharing you mentioned is important to the success. That’s all. I’m not a professional debater so I appologize if I haven’t been clear enough in my point of view.

  31. I agree with you. Completely. However whether you tell people to support BMX or not, it’s going to make the rounds and people are going to see it.

    That’s sort of my point.

    There are things way beyond your control that are what shapes the sport as we see it today. Telling people to actively get involved in copy-pasting videos isn’t going to change anything. You might as well be telling people to breathe oxygen. It’s not like they’re going to stop because you never mentioned it in the first place.

    What you are proposing is nothing short of telling people what to do though and that’s what I think you don’t understand. If I’m wrong, then you and others are not communicating your message properly which completely negates any positive effects it could have had anyway. In practice, you’re telling people to do things that they are already feel inclined to do. So again, what’s the point of getting behind the message of “support bmx”? In the article I say that you guys don’t seem to know, and I’m not really getting a sense that you do as the discussion continues on.

  32. I guess what your saying is that BMX and Flatland specifically… is like a lady……. pmsl without some support in the right areas she will droop and become saggy!! Whilst she may still get a cheeky wink and a smack on the ass every now n then, Ol’ Mr big money will be looking for a more firm op pert unity lol!

  33. Being kind to a new rider IS very RELEVANT to this article as I am a product of that exact action. Certain riders influenced me to want to ride. I now have a “purchasing habit” from my experiences while riding, finding what works best for me and who makes the highest quality product.

    I bought a ______ complete, I no longer ride a single ____ part.
    Would I tell someone NOT to buy ____ … no … because if that bike is what gets them into flatland GREAT . Would I educate them that the natural progression of flatland will lead to them replacing parts as they progress, of course. I dont hate on that company, but I no longer “support” them.

    “I’m only talking about purchasing habits.”

    You are right … But JM is also RIGHT, DAVE is RIGHT, I am RIGHT. Some people don’t even know who Moto is let alone where to find a Moto Video. These are people outside of bmx or flatland. You can’t have a purchasing habit if you’ve yet to make your first purchase. Seeing that video might be what puts them over the edge to actually make that first purchase.

  34. I agree with the issue of buying only what will be good for me, that’s absolutely correct.
    Here in Brazil, the Flatland is growing too, and also some companies involved in Flatland has grown a lot lately ….
    The more you value pieces of “quality”, more companies will support.
    And so the Flatland grow very …
    It’s my opinion and it is also what I’m seeing happen!
    If everyone does their bit we can go very far!
    😉

  35. I came here to see edits not some long winded drivel that’s better suited for global flat.

    If you’re trying to kill global flat then how about designing a proper forum?

  36. Correct me if i’m wrong but isn’t one the points of this article is showing how vulnerable we actually are economically as a community?

  37. Shaun, I have explained my position to you a handful of times, but I will try again.

    You educating people is irrelevant to the discussion because you are doing that anyway. You do not need to be told to do that. Nobody does. Nobody needs to be preached to about this. That’s my point. That side of the sport is self sustaining and will continue on whether people say something on the subject or not.

    “Being kind to a new rider IS very RELEVANT to this article as I am a product of that exact action. Certain riders influenced me to want to ride. I now have a “purchasing habit” from my experiences while riding, finding what works best for me and who makes the highest quality product.”

    No, it’s not relevant because as I’ve said already there are going to be riders that are naturally inclined to be nice to new people. You or Jim or anyone telling people to go be good ambassadors isn’t going to change anything. People either do that or they don’t. That’s the point.

    As to the tail end of your point, you exist in the system I’m describing. You buy things based on what works for you. That’s what people should do and are doing. However again, that has absolutely nothing to do with supporting anything because you’re going to need to buy parts in order to participate in the sport ANYWAY. Telling people to “support” anything on this level is completely redundant and means nothing.

    You can think that you’re right about this, but I’ve already shown in detail why your message and Jim’s message is redundant and ultimately does nothing to effect change. There are things that people simply do because it’s in their nature. For example, do you think there is anything you can say or do to keep me from having my opinion on this subject and voicing it? I know for a fact there isn’t any way you could stop that the same way I cannot encourage someone who has no desire to help anyone go out and be charitable. That’s why “support BMX” is an unsustainable and pointless position to have.

    So that is where your points and position fall flat and you are wrong. You can think otherwise all you want but in the end it will not make a difference. You can disagree with me all you want as well, but that ultimately has no point because I’m not problem.

    Everyone is the problem whether they want to be or not.

  38. Yes Archon that’s the entire point of the article. We are economically helpless in the grand scheme of things and attempting to simply will kindness out of people will do nothing to change that.

  39. All things equal, I will buy a BMX shirt over a Volcom shirt. I believe the article from Adam was somewhat taken out of context. I also believe who gives a shit. It came across with what I would consider a simplistic meaning that I understood because I am a simpleton. You will but BMX because you have to because you ride BMX, as far as parts go. Also….start promoting what you love as simple as at the local level and be proud you ride BMX. Laters and hope that helped someone understand some of what seems to be confusing.

  40. Economically helpless is not entirely true. Maybe in regards to a company like DC. But only as to whether we buy their shoes or not, which most of us probably don’t. What flatland has to offer as a promotional tool for a product such as Red Bull is very valuable – whether we drink Red Bull or not. Red Bull doesn’t support flatland so that flatlanders will drink Red Bull. Red Bull doesn’t support flatland to be nice, because they like the sport or to get a tax credit. They do it because it benefits THEM and fits their marketing program. To me it’s DC’s loss or a result of not using their team properly to get benefit from it. Who knows? Another smart company will come along and use the talents of flatlanders / BMXers to promote and define their brand. It’s good business. Red Bull or DC or anyone else will support flatland so long as it supports them and their brand. When their business changes direction or redefines they will possibly move on – if there is no longer a good fit or benefit. Someone else will come along. It’s up to pros who want to make a career out of it to decide how to shape their image and best use their skills to benefit sponsors. If the pro’s work to benefit the sponsors marketing program they will keep paying them. If those pros supported by Red Bull work to promote Red Bull effectively Red Bull will keep supporting them. But more than that, if by being associated with Flatland ads to and defines Red Bull’s brand in a way that makes people want to be associated with Red Bull they will continue to support us.

  41. Want to support BMX ? Stop giving people like TJ the spotlight on FM

    YOU DONT SUPPORT BMX
    YOU tear it down every chance you get

    Pick at every little positive we have in the sport. Seems people are afraid of saying something. As JM stated, they aren’t great debaters. You turn everything into something along the lines of, “you cant properly punctuate so your stupid and your argument is invalid.” I Understand your a very narrow minded person with extremely poor social skills. Which is fine, but no reason to put down others that are doing much more for the sport than you.

    Been to 2 contests in the past 3 years.
    Chucked your bike around like a disgruntled troll at “fight with flight” had a melt down and damn near got last. Whats the real reason you dont SUPPORT flatland contests ? Cant stand to lose ?
    Flipped your ish at Texas because you qualified 2nd behind a flawless run.
    ” SHOW ME THE SCORES SHOW ME THE SCORES”

    Got a interview on FM after winning Texas … 90% of the things you said were negative, complaining about “having” to pick up Gatorade bottles and saying no one helps with the contest. Threw cheap shots at York blah blah blah … your times came and went.

    Just because your days of sitting behind a computer screen are now irrelevant doesn’t mean everyone else is. There is a future for flatland, without or without redbull, and with or without TJ Perry

    RIDING, having FUN, talking with people that are interested, encouraging new riders, and being a lot more like JF than TJ will do a lot more for this sport than some arrogant rider with a impressive GWAM.

  42. Question: What does it mean to support BMX?

    Source for the answer: Mat Hoffman’s book “The Ride of My Life.”

    Coles’ note version of the answer: Mat Hoffman.

  43. @Shaun,

    Day before Toast, TJ sat around watching Tyler Gilliard and the event organizers doing all the work. He only began helping when he realized he would be late to the og jam if he didn’t start helping.

  44. I had a long talk with McKinney the other day about this industry, supporting it and etc. It was good, as it allowed me to put the past behind me and to look forward positively.

    Companies like S&M and Odyssey are the one’s that need to be supported. How? By word of mouth and purchases.

    They have continuously stepped up to the plate in product and customer support, even if there are instances where they do not (a drop in the bucket, but business decisions are not *always* fair)

    Support the riders that ride for these companies. Do so in any way you can: By spreading their video’s, word of mouth, or a couch to crash when they are traveling. Or, by (laughs) just *not* talking shit when their video hits flatmatters….. 😉

    These companies have the alignment and capital to design and support, and that is the foundation of our industry and the progression thereof.

    To those who say this does not belong here:

    Why would you not encourage thought and discussion on a topic dear to our hearts? Those who find yourselves disagreeing with TJ’s viewpoints, so what? Does it matter what he says, or what *we discuss*. It is important. He is right about most of that, though I would not encourage any negative opinion of ‘bmx support’…even if its blind, at least its a positive sentiment. Thats better than no sentiment.

    One thing I do not like about our business model is that there are not enough independent distributors, and people like pat/FF create a monopoly on sales.

    This leads to unethical brand choice/selection and often turns negative. Pat sold me a frame with a bad track record and a 90 day warranty when I asked him for a ‘Strong frame with a good warranty’. Fool I was to be new to the sport and ignorant and to trust him on his advice. Even recently, I had to wait 2 months to get a replacement frame from Odyssey on a warranty because he refused to ship the frame out, despite already agreeing to do so and having it ready to ship until he found out that it was going to me. Thats a very very personal attack backed by several unethical choices he made towards me.

    Now, many many times, I cannot purchase a product because he is the *only* distributor and I refuse to give someone business who treated me so unethically.

    I see one of my ways of ‘supporting flatland’ by specifically NOT supporting Pat. Anyone who would screw me like he did deserves not a penny from me. It may be different to a lot of you who have found support through him over the years, but I cannot personally abide by his existence.

    There’s one thing we can all agree on: The best support you can give your sport is to ride your heart out every day that you can. Create inspiration and motivation in future riders.

    It seems to me that the Japanese have created the best business model, and if we are to look towards a more constructive approach towards our sport, maybe we need to look closer at them? The growth appears positive where ours is negative. They are creating ‘schools’ in multiple cities, gathering better awareness. Shawn White has been doing the same for years now locally here in Newport and deserves community support!

    Cheers

  45. @Jake
    @Sean Fontenot – Sorry the site flags up really long posts as spam.

    This needs some kind of conclusion otherwise all the points are lost in the 55 or so comments.

    I agree with what Jake said as a brief summary.
    “Bottom line: Know about the companies you’re buying from and decide for yourself if you feel comfortable supporting them based on that knowledge.”

  46. Nobody will support the BMX Flatland if we’re behind a computer screen discussing. The best we can do is accept the view of another, even seeming to be wrong, because he it can also think that it your is wrong opinion. But do what?
    Answer: Riding Flatland!!! so I’m sure,
    that is what will help the Flatland having more support …
    🙂

  47. “That’s why “support BMX” is an unsustainable and pointless position to have.”- TJ

    Hoffman, Standard, S&M, Haro, KHE, FBM….. All been around 20+ years and all rider owned. Core riders kept these companies going through thin times and the BMX owners were willing stick through tougher financial times. That relationship sounds sustainable to me, and you know where your money is going. No one is getting rich, but it’s enough to keep going.

    I don’t know how over complicated or out of context you want to make “support BMX”, but support the rider owned BMX companies who are making the right products and they will sustain (assuming they have a decent business plan) . Most people buy from those companies anyway, they usually make the best products. Aside from that you ride your bike and you contribute to your BMX community in whatever way you can.

    Supporting or getting support from an underwear company or a energy drink is what it is. Don’t get me wrong, I’m psyched that Viki and other riders are able to make some sort of living off of Redbull and that Redbull has contributed so much to rider planned events, but you can’t put too much faith in their involvement being around forever. I don’t think many rational people would. I’m sure Redbull and other companies do have good intentions beyond brand exposure, that’s aside from the point though. If we had a bigger community then more pros would be able to make a living off the BMX community alone, but that’s not where were at and really isn’t such a bad thing as I feel like BMX is better now than it’s ever been in a lot of ways.

  48. Yes Effraim … I’m always trying doing my part to the Flatland, if everyone does his, the Flatland can going to get very far!!!

  49. David your comment about me standing around is a bold faced lie as anyone who was there helping (Adam Tyler and others) can attest to.

  50. Ride, ride, ride, help others, support the products & people you love and respect and the rest will fall into place.

    • This discussion is becoming a bit to personal. In the beginning there were a lot of good points, but the last few have just been personal shots fired. Lets make this about what we can learn from, companies pulling out happens for a reason. What can we do as flatlanders better?

  51. Shaun you must be upset because you and your brother walked out of helping at Texas toast. You left. You picked up your shit and left. As for fight with flight, I got 8th not near last. You sound very upset w me and seem unable to address any point I bring up so why you bothered to write something so ridiculous shows how adherent you are to your message of positivity.

  52. @TJ,

    You did nothing until you realized you could be late to the jam since your ride wasn’t leaving until the work was finished.

    • “That’s why “support BMX” is an unsustainable and pointless position to have.”- TJ

      Hoffman, Standard, S&M, Haro, KHE, FBM….. All been around 20+ years and all rider owned. Core riders kept these companies going through thin times and the BMX owners were willing stick through tougher financial times. That relationship sounds sustainable to me, and you know where your money is going. No one is getting rich, but it’s enough to keep going.

      I don’t know how over complicated or out of context you want to make “support BMX”, but support the rider owned BMX companies who are making the right products and they will sustain (assuming they have a decent business plan) . Most people buy from those companies anyway, they usually make the best products. Aside from that you ride your bike and you contribute to your BMX community in whatever way you can.

      Supporting or getting support from an underwear company or a energy drink is what it is. Don’t get me wrong, I’m psyched that Viki and other riders are able to make some sort of living off of Redbull and that Redbull has contributed so much to rider planned events, but you can’t put too much faith in their involvement being around forever. I don’t think many rational people would. I’m sure Redbull and other companies do have good intentions beyond brand exposure, that’s aside from the point though. If we had a bigger community then more pros would be able to make a living off the BMX community alone, but that’s not where were at and really isn’t such a bad thing as I feel like BMX is better now than it’s ever been in a lot of ways.

      ***Great Points Pete!

  53. Dave I have no idea who you are or why you’re making these assertions when I don’t recall you helping. This is getting personal and I do not understand why.

  54. I have to say I agree with Aaron on this one. It seems Adams article has been taken out of context and this whole thing has went off on a tangent.

  55. @TJ,

    I have no problem with you’re lack of help until it affected you. Its when you come on flatmatters preaching to others that I got annoyed.

  56. Well when what you say is untrue and I have no idea who you are its a little uncalled for when it doesnt pertain to the article I wrote.

  57. I will agree on some points of what TJ has written here. Flatland itself does not hold a lot of weight with companies who are in the position to sponsor events such as Circle of Balance and Texas Toast. I myself have been “Out of the scene” for a little while but I still try to be active within it, if not from actual riding, then from a supportive role. I’ve attempted to support the sport in my own way over the past 3 years now. Some will remember me asking for spare parts to be able to send off to people in countries who do not have access or the funds to otherwise ride. I ended up sending off some frames to Trinidad and Tobago with help from the boys down there and Trevlon Hall, who by the way has made a massive impact in action sports, flatland included with the full backing of Monster Energy Drinks. I don’t believe that things like that are a drop in the bucket for companies like that. Yes, it would take up a small percentage of what they do, but to be able to get nearly a whole country involved with the help of dedicated riders/organizers, is a leap in the right direction. I was thankful enough to receive help from Ryder Distribution and Profile Racing for even thinking to donate parts to my little cause. I just recently gave some small parts in hopes to help out some girls through Magnolia BMX, and had a 10 year old girl come into my shop the other day wanting to get into riding after watching the BMX shows at the Toronto Bike Show this past weekend. I think it is important to define support for BMX. Be it Flatland, Street, Dirt. I will support the sport my way with the means that I have available to me, and I hope others will support it their way as well.

    (I may or may not have been totally off the mark with what I’ve said, but I would like people to take it as some sort of encouragement knowing that they don’t just have to at least buy parts from specific companies to support their sport. Growing the sport and spreading a positive influence can make a drastic change as well)

  58. Wasnt planning on commenting until my name was brought up. It’s off topic but so is this whole thread.
    At Texas Toast, myself, Shaun, Joe, Trevor, Andrew W, and others washed, swept, cleaned etc for HOURS before TJ. We had blisters from squeegee-ing. We were all there as paid competitors. We had been planning on leaving and getting dinner well before TJ got there. TJ showed up and says “hey anyone wanna help mop up” we didn’t say “no” but more “we already did”. So get your facts straight, bro.
    As for your slight handed comment about our bottles. There was no garbage, we asked the organizers where we should put them, they said “just leave them and we’ll get them later”.

  59. Such a strange article. Reading it i kept getting lost on what point was trying to be made.
    My understanding is the serious riders are buying serious product already.
    Its kids new to the sport who may buy a “cheap” product.
    There probly cash strapped and there just learning and probly cant justify spending the money on a top notch product at that point in time.
    Give them time to progess and so do there buying choices.
    Cant give some kid shit cause hes on a walmart bike. His mum probly got it and the kid thinks its the same as yours.
    In a sport of originality why are we so judgmental on what parts people ride.

    The only way of supporting flat is to ride. And show that new kid a thing or two. Buying power will double. He will progress to quality parts thus quality parts company can have more money to innovate new product and throw behind event.

    I have tried to purchase a bike store recently with plans of support some events holding some jams. When looking at finacials i couldnt even pay the rent.
    The rising costs of living where i am. Is taking a impact of community and shit

    P.s
    I blame social media. For everything

  60. It is such a shame, and downright shameful, that this article has been taken so out of context and that personal attacks and straight up fabrications of past events are being brought up. I won’t go tit for tat with the Lapsley brothers, but their recollection of Texas Toast and what actually happened is very different. That’s all I will say about that.

    I have read people saying that I got it wrong when I say that people shouldn’t support bmx. I have read people saying that I am the problem. I’ve read that I’m too negative and mean.

    I never said people shouldn’t literally support bmx. I am saying we’re already doing that, and people preaching at others to “support BMX” do it are shouting hollow redundancies. If you buy parts that work for you, there’s nothing else you need to be doing when it comes to your spending habits.

    “Hoffman, Standard, S&M, Haro, KHE, FBM….. All been around 20+ years and all rider owned. Core riders kept these companies going through thin times and the BMX owners were willing stick through tougher financial times. That relationship sounds sustainable to me, and you know where your money is going. No one is getting rich, but it’s enough to keep going.”

    Well, these companies all succeeded because they made things people wanted and formed successful business models. FBM isn’t 20 years old but I know what you mean. They produce really really nice frames at a price point people are willing to pay. KHE did produce the F-set a few years back and next to nobody bought that. It was just a bad business decision. You’re right, all of that IS sustainable, but you don’t need to tell people to buy a strowler or an A-damn pro to support these companies because they are already doing this. That’s kinda my point…?

    If you think TJ Perry is the problem, then you’re not reading anything I’m writing. I could leave the sport tomorrow and it wouldn’t change anything I’ve written about here. The economics won’t change. Positivity or negativity be damned, there is a lot that is way outside of our control. I see a lot of denial about that. I was gone for two years and hardly said a word online or off. It didn’t do anything to reshape the landscape. Flat didn’t enter a new era of prosperity. It was just “oh I wonder what happened to the guy that said things i didn’t like to hear went?”.

    It sucks because I know it’s easy for people to simply point their finger at me and throw out all sorts of bizarre unrelated insults at my direction, but it doesn’t change how the sport works or what’s actually happening. It won’t bring out more contests. It won’t sponsor more riders. You can get as mad at me for saying what I’m saying as you want, but I’m not the source of the problem.

  61. I think E needs to approve the post I wrote before this one since it is long and triggered to be spam. It’s such a shame that this article has brought people to just pointing their finger at me, accuse me of spreading negativity while doing so themselves, and not even thinking about what I’m saying.

    For those of you that have taken the time to read it and understand my position thank you, and to those of you who didn’t quite catch my meaning but asked me questions in order to clarify a few things that didn’t come across properly thank you even more.

    This was supposed to be a discussion about a few very tricky truths and it’s strayed so far from the path I intended.

    If any of you still believe that I don’t want people to support good companies, you are mistaken. If you think I don’t support the actions of those among us who go above and beyond the call of duty, you are mistaken. If you think this is about bringing people down, you’re mistaken.

  62. What article are these people reading? Where anywhere at all does it talk about being negative towards other riders, not helping other riders or anything like that? Those criticisms have nothing at all to do with this article. And it’s definitely getting too personal.

    The guy makes a valid point. He says shit all the time that I don’t agree with but give credit where it is do. Nothing worse than a person who can’t accept opposing ideas or view points, no matter how valid or how much sense they make. Nevermind there is. There’s the person who can’t accept it and starts to get real personal, childish and off topic. What a joke.

  63. They used to be owned by Sole Tech which is the same company that owns Etnies and a few other skate brands. Not sure when the buy out happened. I used to get Etnies through a sales rep for sole tech years ago and he only wore DCs so I assume it was at least up until 2004 when they were under the same umbrella.

    Nike isn’t exactly BMX friendly are they? I don’t know if they sponsor anyone.

  64. DC is owned by quicksilver.
    interesting post though a bit long to go through…on a personal level i really hate to see how all the bigger events are all only made possible by energy drink companies, but i have to recognise that without theses companies, the bigger events wouldn’t take place at all. so it’s a bad thing for a good thing. But as some poeple said here, they take adavantage of us, and we take advantage of them in a business context. they use our image, we use their money for events and sponsoring riders that are then able to travel the world, do shows and maybe motivate some young kid to take up flatland…this is positive.
    But anywayflatland in the end is not a competition, it is not a big event, and it is certainly not about drinking redbull.

    i don’t remember how many times i heard about the death of flatland.

    flatland won’t die and we don’t need bigger companies to save us from death.

  65. i love u j evans. personally, i have always wondered why the big E hasnt outsourced some articles etc, but not like this. i think this belongs on global flat. this was tl/dr and i’m not sure what point was made

  66. I think a lot of people missed the point of this article. I just got off the phone with Jim Mckay and he and I spoke about all this for an hour. We’re on the same page and he understood what I was trying to say. It’s sad so many other people aren’t taking the time to think about any of this like he is, but hey sometimes people don’t evacuate when they’re in the path of a hurricane too.

    If the point was lost on you, or you think it was stupid and boring, you’re the person that decided to stay.

  67. Yeah, I felt like we were never oceans apart on this yet only getting farther apart by typing. The phone convo definitely clarified some things and got us on the same page with all this.

    Guys like me will always be supportive, that’s just what I do, but I don’t think that my doing that has any real bearing or influence on our future as a sport; at least in any quantifiable way. I feel it’s important, although more on a personal level than anything. I don’t think it will or even should determine the livelihood of companies.

    It does sometimes make us feel unified and helps us to develop our identity. But all this talk also takes focus away from the elephant in the room that lead to this entire discussion.

  68. wow that was alot to read! alot to think about -for me the way i support bmx is i ride flat , bought a custom s&m intrikat, got custom forks by pir malo on the way, sickchild bars odyssey tyres and other parts like bizhouse khe etc, i shop at flatfuel ,flat squirrel, kunstform, ,thats all i can do , if i could do more like hold a jam etc i would. bmx will never die , its snowing , windy and cold as fuck and in a mo im off out wrapped up with a flask of tea ready to roll, stay positive and RIDE ON. ps please no personnal attacks lifes too short for it. peace

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