Heard plenty of people talk about this one, this guy drops it, smooth, cliffhanger jump back to hitchiker, progressive!!!!

ATLANTA, GEORGIA USA from Luis dos Santos on Vimeo.

I’m currently on a train to London Waterloo heading for the Euro Star connection at St Pancras. Heres a banging edit from Moya, some of the highlights from 08, (even part of Sam Foakes no touch qualifying run), the level was crazy last year, how will this years compare? the world circuit is the week after so a few top pros aren’t going… I will try and update the blog as much as possible with the inside scoop of whats going down, whos busting, all that good stuff.

BMX MASTERS FLATLAND from MOYA_FLAT on Vimeo.

Great stuff Bobby, not much left to ask you… Is there anything you think I’ve missed???
I guess we could talk about tricks. Chad Johnston and I had a huge discussion about how styles are being funneled into a similar direction compared to back in the day and the need for the older school riders who have a different set of skills to keep putting their new tricks out there… That could be interesting.
It’s up to you.

You judge some of the biggest contests currently, ninja spin, voodoo for example, do you think for the most part riding had reached a stagnant point, everyone’s doing very similar stuff…
I wouldn’t say that progression is stagnant, but it has slowed down and also it’s mostly going in a similar direction with few exceptions. Contests pre-1997 was about showing off new tricks and at the end of a pro run, you definitely were going to see a very new trick that may not have been dialed. Touching didn’t matter as much back then. These days, touching matters a lot! A couple of touches and you may not qualify. Everyone plays it safe.
Most pros are concentrating on the contest circuits, so they have to stay dialed. Staying dialed and learning new tricks are two different objectives- both take a lot of time. Not only that, but it seems that since the late 90s more and more stylistic “rules” have come into play that I think is pushing a lot of riders towards the same style of riding and limiting the variety in creativity we used to see.
It used to be “freestyle.” The only rule was don’t touch the ground. These days, you hear all sorts of rules, “don’t touch the tyre, don’t change directions, don’t scuff, step in on one side, step out on the other, don’t use brakes” and on and on it goes. For an individual rider to set rules for him or herself, it may push the rider to progress and innovate. However, for all riders to follow the same set of rules, in my opinion, is limiting the variety of progression of what can be done on a bike. Riders are restricting themselves to innovating in similar ways.
Flatland’s main focus used to be pushing the limits to total mastery of the bike. Riders wanted to explore what could be done. Check out the Dorkin’s and Baco’s. Now it’s more about how can I spice up my contest routine.
On top of that, if riders try to learn something that drastically different from what they can already do, it’s going to take much longer to learn and even longer to get dialed for the contest. For the most part people stay in the same general area when they learn new tricks.
There’s so much unexplored territory and paths that were started that have since been abandoned. For example, all the decade to pedal tricks that Dylan Worsley did in the Loiter videos. All those tricks are VERY difficult even to this day. Nobody really touches that style or incorporates it with the riding of today.
Eventually I think there’s going to be a group of riders that branch off from the contest scene and just innovate. Perhaps they will follow what Martti and Viki did with the Impulsivity video. Learn a trick, get it on tape and move to the next trick.
I know that there are some older guru riders out there that are still innovating with a much different skill set than the new school riders. I think the older, guru riders need to start dropping more videos to show their latest innovations and inspire the new school riders. I also hope that the older riders are inspired by the new riders and incorporate new styles into their bag of tricks. We should all be pushing each other to progress! No limits!

Perhaps stagnant was a strong word, I’ve always believed in almost like a flatland utopia. Ie, there’s a hardest way to do a particular a combo, for me the judging should be a bit harder on the riders. At the moment it seems as though the judges are overlooking originality almost turning a blind eye to it. Like you say riders are playing safe, I think that’s one of reasons why flat comes across as boring to general public. People like to see someone put on the line, of course there are video tricks and contest tricks, but being conservative doesn’t really help anyone in the bigger picture..
What’s going on with originality these days is that most pro riders are doing original tricks. They just happen to be the same original tricks they’ve been doing for the last 5-8 years or more. When you judge, you have to judge a rider for what they do in their run, that day. You cannot say, I saw him do XYZ trick at this other contest or at the parking lot years ago, so points off.
I will tell you that if touching doesn’t matter, things get super exciting, quickly, for the people at the event. The best example is the very first Voodoo Jam. During the final 3 man battle, we had to judge only what the rider pulled, if a rider touched, points were not deducted. Since riders couldn’t repeat tricks, it pushed them to try harder combos that weren’t dialed.
However, watching riders touch all the time doesn’t make for good TV/video clips though. Another issue…
I think video parts from outside the contest realm, push the progression of tricks the most.

Of course you have to judge what happens in the run, I would disagree on the originality though… A few riders do original tricks, the majority pad their in out with filler. I think the only way it will change is if the judging gets tougher and actually becomes a record of what happens, some judges may be swayed on a decision by a famous name. I’m not convinced all judges know who did what when?
There is a lot of filler. Some riders go in hit their main trick and roll out. Others do a bunch of filler, hit their original switch, then more filler and roll out.
So much happens during a pro flatland run, you would really need a video camera to really evaluate thoroughly what happens.
At a contest, you don’t have that kind of time.
Usually the organizer is pushing you because they need to keep the whole event on time.
No one really knows all the tricks and their origins. You might see one trick and think, that came out in this year and that guy was doing it. Then you meet someone from another country and you find out another guy was doing the same thing years before.
Judges getting swayed, by famous names, riding expectations, the crowds enthusiasm, guys half pulling hard tricks and not finishing the combo, small touches that are easily over looked. All that and more are issues you have with judging flatland.
Judging flatland is very difficult and a formula that will never be agreed upon. It’s like judging paintings.
Flatland is complicated. It’s not like BMX racing where the first one over the finish line wins.

I hear you Bobby, the worlds is coming up this weekend as you know, any predictions for the top three?
Catfish answered this question one time – The guy who rides the best will get first, the guy who rides 2nd best gets second, and the guy who rides 3rd best gets third. HA! HA! HA! Anybody could ride well and anybody could fall all over the place.
I don’t even try to predict. I just watch and see. Trying to predict could cause a judge to be biased to his or her own expectations when scoring the runs! Oh no! We’re back to the judging issue! AAAAHhh help! 😉
Effraim, You’ve seen evolution from way back, all the KOC events, etc. How would you compare flatland these days to the Dorkin’ era. Let’s say around Dorkin’ 5?

I would say back then the riders featured in Dorkin 5 were groundbreaking, original tricks, stands out of course Kevin Jones and Chase Gouin, a video such as Dorkin’ 5 was dedicated to pushing the creative side as much as possible, the only thing recently that I think has come close to that in terms of thinking along the same lines is the KGB vid. That was a Dorkin video of our time, the difference was that video took years to film and Dorkins were filmed in less than a year. There are of course similarities, to be perfectly honest I haven’t been that impressed with much of the riding I see nowadays, I’d take that Dorkin era over now anyday. Was more about the riding less attitude.
That also might be because the riding level is so high these days. It took Martti and Viki years to make this last video, how long will it take for them to make the next video? On top of that, a lot of those tricks were hit only one time on camera. It’s like the energy and dedication to make something ground breaking is so high, you almost have to dedicate your life to doing just that, not trying to get it all dialed for the comp. It’s easier just to innovate with new combinations of switches that may not have been done before. The difficulty might not be increased, the main positions may be the same, but the newness is in the creativity of the switch.
To me it feels like we are entering into the next era after the formative years. New positions are rare, but now everyone can compose an infinite number of combinations with those positions. Then, with the influence of styles from all the past years, things could really be interesting.
Martti told me in Thailand that he realized that a lot of riders who started around 1998, are very good riders, but limited by the fact that they are missing some basic moves and bike control that riders learned who started before that time. It was holding them back.
What do you mean by “less attitude”?

Back then I didn’t feel any attitude, and certainly didn’t see it, nowadays I see other riders cutting up other riders deliberately, that brings a bad vibe to the whole feel of the contest, it’s nature of beast with battling I guess, the whole battle format way of doing contests is very cut throat, is probably more media friendly. But I don’t think it’s as good for the rider.
I think that attitude is part of the contest scene. It’s competitive. People want to win. That coupled with small riding areas, means in the practice session you have to muscle your way in to get a combo going. Even before battle format, that 1-up mentality came through at contests.

TV definitely feeds off drama.

There might be a division of riders in the future. You’ll have your contest riders (getting their routine dialed), your street-style riders (just straight progressing with a large variety of tricks, perhaps not super dialed, but brings something new to the table often), bomb droppers (very few, but SUPER hard tricks), and show riders (focusing on performances). Of course people will be a combination of different types, but will focus more in some categories than others.
If teams can make use of all these different riders, I think you’ll see flatland growing to be all it can be in various areas.

I think there already are a division of riders, like you say, its just not happened competitively, I know with myself im not confrontational like that, to be snaking people, generally getting in the way, for me that doesnt interest me, but like you say i’m already inside the sport, so im hooked anyway, in a sense i dont matter.
I agree that competition is good, definitely helps the sport progress, always has done, always will.
It will be interesting to see how TV make flatland look, focussing on the rivalries of competitors for me would be one of the most interesting focus points. I know when Mirra competed in vert at X Games, the rivalry with him and Bestwick was fierce, and personally I loved that, and I’m sure the viewers did to.
They (ESPN) set it up Trevor Meyer Vs. Andrew Faris too.
Back to the division of riders- I think when sponsors can understand the true value of all kinds of riders, not just contest riders, we will see the riding progress differently and flatland will make it’s way to many more outlets successfully.

Yes I remember that rivalry, I competed at the same time, was intense, the machine against the artist, rivalry is definitely good for progression, I just don’t think it’s good when it gets to personal. I guess there’s positives and negatives to every scenario.
Wait, I think we’re getting a little confused.
I think that 1up mentality started in the contest scene pre-battle format and increased since the battle format started. It’s cool for the contest scene, not when it carries over between riders as people though.
When I speak of the division of riders, I don’t mean that there is a rivalry between the riders, I just mean riders can specialize in their personal approach to riding.
Way back, the contest wasn’t the main focus, so the free form style of riding you see in Dorkin’ and Baco, was main way people approached riding. These days it’s mostly the contest mentality.
This is all good. However, I think we will start to see more riders with different approaches to riding in the future. Sponsors willing to support non-contest style riders will help that development.
That would be awesome, guys like Chad Johnston, Jesse Puente and Pete Brandt spring to my mind, great riders who don’t compete much anymore but contribute in other ways, equally as valid as riding the contest circuit.
Yes! And the list keeps going with older riders and new riders! There’s a lot of valuable talent out there that is overlooked by sponsors because the rider is outside the contest scene.

This is Kind of off topic but related to what we were talking about with jams and how they do more for the growth of flat, these are often attended by guys such as Chad, Jesse, Pete B, especially in Cali where you almost have a circuit of jams going on periodically. Do the jams in Cali show any evidence of helping the sport grow there?
I think the main thing that it does is keeps the scene going. It’s only a few times a year the the riders from all over really get together and have fun. After a jam, you feel like you’re part of a group. Like a family reunion or something.
There’s a couple of new faces here and there, but for the most part it’s the same group of riders every time for the last 6 or 7 years. I think there are other issues at hand that keep new people from riding.
In 1999 there were about 25 everyday riders in the socal area between the ages of 18-25. These days there’s only a few riders in that age group. Most riders are 26 and over.
How have the jams influenced the scene in the UK?

Hmm, I would say the jams have a more positive effect in terms of numbers riding than contests do here. The most positive i’ve seen the Uk scene in a while was last year at the Southsea groundroots contest and James Whites birthday jam, on both occasions it rained,the Southsea contest turned into a jam in the rain, people overcame the weather factor, and the atmosphere generated from the fact it rained and we overcame was something I think is unique to the uk scene. I dont think riders are fussed with contests here, what matters to them is the social side, getting together, riding, meeting new people.
In the grand scheme of things, that’s what matters the most.
Everyone around the world coming together and having fun, doing what we do with flatland! When we’re all old, what will stand out in our minds will be the fun we had along our journey with flatland no matter where it goes. (((Worldwide!)))

((WORLDWIDEEEEEEEEEE))

Go check out: http://www.diversiontv.com/

The flatland australia blog site is kicking arse with updates this week, Badman’s just posted this final battle between Colony team mates Simon O’Brien and Shintaro Misawa, looks nice and mellow down under!! Good vibes…

Down Underground Finals – Brisbane. from Colony BMX on Vimeo.

http://flatlandaustralia.blogspot.com/

Your comment on jams I completely agree with, jams are rider friendly… pros talk to ams, ams go away stoked, contests in some ways don’t help too much, people bitching, personal pride at stake, sponsorships, and for the most people losing sight of what riding is all about..

Yes, and that brings up another point. With contests you get all that complaining and stress for little to no money! Guys are out there putting all their time practicing combos 5 in a row, spending all that money to travel to the contest, ride really well, get 4th place, and receive very little money. Magazines don’t really cover contests anymore and even if you place high, there’s no guarantee that you’ll be able to even get a web picture for your sponsor. I think a pro contest needs at the level of Circle of Balance, or at least Ninja Spin to be worthwhile for pros. The Flatland world circuit will hopefully become this for flatland, but it needs more time to grow and develop.

While big money contests should be reserved for the pros, the other contests should focus on the AMs and not even have a Pro Class. The pros should judge the AMs. If you look at Japan, KOG is really more of an Am contest than a pro contest. Although the pros get the recognition on the internet, when you go there in person, AMs way out number the pros. It happens in three different areas in Japan throughout the year, so that the AMs can participate without traveling far.

Ams need something to have some structure in their development and an award for their accomplishments. Ams need the spotlight! All they are looking for is product or a trophy- some recognition. Product is something flatland companies can provide much more easily than cash sponsorships. As a company owner, I would want Ams to get free samples of my product. Ams are the ones who are buying products and keeping the economy going. These types of events can be fun for the participants, cheap to organize, and an effective marketing tool for companies. They can happen all over the world at the local spots.

For the pros, I think that shows are the future. Even Circle of Balance is really a big show. I think shows are more effective at building flatland, the riders are can get consistently paid and the riders can represent their sponsors more effectively. At a contest, a pro is one of many people with various sponsors trying to get in front of the crowd. At a show there’s usually one main sponsor being promoted.

I don’t see a reason why any of the teams like A Bad Thing, Odyssey, Suelo, Ares, KHE, etc. can’t be booking shows and going on tour. They could be making money off each show and promoting their brands. They could notify the media of the show and guarantee that their riders would be getting the coverage.

Another analogy to the music industry- when you’re a local band and you think you have some skills, you might compete in a battle of the bands. Once you get on that record label, you don’t need to go back to competing in a battle of the bands. You go out and perform concerts and drop record albums. Metallica doesn’t need to battle Megadeth at a battle of the bands anymore. They make their money off records sales and concerts. A pro flatland team can make money off of shows and selling the company’s products. Just ask Matt Wilhelm, Terry Adams, Jon Dowker, and Trevor Meyer about making money from flatland shows.

At a contest, the pros are trying to get as much practice time in as possible before their run, they don’t have time to talk about the brand they are representing. If I had a team, I would send the riders to all the major jams around the world as opposed to contests. At a jam, pros have time to talk, show the new bike parts, teach a kid a trick, get people stoked. All without the stress and drama of the contest scene. People can relax and have fun riding again!

Yet again I agree totally, part if reason I did the UK groundroots series last year was to encourage the riders, but I noticed fairly quickly certainly in the UK, we get way more riders at jams than the contests….

Do you ever see it going in that direction where sponsors are sending riders to jams rather than contests?

That’s the proof of what I’m trying to say right there!

I call this era, around 1997- to present, the “tournament era.” Contests were around before 1997, but I think since Espn jumped in the game, there’s been more focus than ever on the contest as the backbone of professional flatland riding. X-games days are over for flatland. Personally, I think flatland is very special and pro riding has progressed passed the competition level. (Except for Circle of Balance type contests, which are more of a show.) If companies really step back, look at the big picture, and take time to think of all the ways to promote their companies they will find much more effective avenues besides sending their riders to a contest. When that happens we will really see how flatland grow to be all it can be.

Besides that, In all the other disciplines of pro BMX riding, one rider comes up with a trick and eventually bunch of dudes are doing the same trick. Pro flatland is about trying to be as original as possible. It’s like trying to judge paintings in an art gallery.

I think the traditional formula- go to a contest, rank high, promote the brand, doesn’t work as well for flatland at this stage in the game. We need to innovate passed that to bigger, better, and more effective routes that really fit what flatland is all about.

Just as the presentation of flatland has evolved over the years, the marketing strategies and the way we participate in flatland everyday should evolve as well.

I have attended, judged, and filmed a lot of contests over the years and I see people continually dissatisfied.

I think the reason is much deeper than poor judging, poor event organization, or poor flatland areas. I think it has to do with trying to hold on to systems and methods that don’t fit pro flatland anymore.

There are reasons why flatland is out of the X-games, why flatland didn’t grow as much as the other disciplines, and why pro flatlanders and companies are struggling to get paid.

When we understand those reasons, we can then innovate.

Flatland itself as a whole is trying to tell us something. We need to listen and move forward on all levels.

With that said, lot of hype about flat being in the dew tour, do you see that happening?

I know there are people pushing for flatland to be in the Dew tour. They are trying to get flatland to the same position it was with the X-games. However, the main question is this: Have we addressed all issues that we had with the X-games as we push for the Dew tour?

The presentation of the flatland contest has been developed to make it a much better presentation. In person, it looks awesome. The crowd can get into. It’s exciting. However, Dew tour is really a TV show. That’s the main unresolved issue.

I’ve been working in TV for a number of years, broadcasters have to target the lowest common denominator when they air a TV show. Dew tour isn’t just for the riders. It’s more for the couch potato that doesn’t necessarily participate in the sport, but seeks to be entertained by it. You have to simplify everything. When you start a TV show, you have to tell the audience what they are about to watch in a simple manner.

Example: Hockey -Guys skating on ice trying to get a puck in the goal with the occasional fight.

Formula One- Cars racing on a track at high speeds with the occasional crash.

Action Sports- Guys flying through the air doing maneuvers and the occasion wreck.

HOLD UP! That’s not flatland…Flatland is guys performing balance maneuvers on the ground, battling with style and flow.

There lies the conflict. Flatland entertains in a different way than the rest of BMX.

The guy on the couch is waiting for high flying airs and crashes, and you don’t get that with flatland. When people don’t get what is expected to be delivered, the channel changes.

You can’t advertise a Heavy Metal Concert and then throw Cyndi Lauper into the line up. That’s not what the people are there to hear and see.

However, Cyndi CAN sell out a venue on her own, with people who came to hear that kind of music.

I think flatland has that same potential and Circle of Balance is proof of that.

Flatland can be successful on TV, but it has to be done properly and presented on it’s own or with things that entertain with style and flow, not airs and wrecks.

It has yet to be proven if flatland in the Dew Tour would be successful or not, but it would really be a bummer to put so much effort into it, have them try it out for a couple years, only to drop it for the same reasons as the X-games. Then we’re back to 2003.

In my opinion, everything hinges on whether or not Dew Tour can successfully create 1show that delivers two different forms of entertainment.

Perhaps Flatland could be broadcast on a different day…I’m not sure… You also get into the promo aspect of making a TV show. You would have to say Dew Tour is about guys flying through the air doing maneuvers and the occasion wreck, but we also have one discipline that is about guys performing balance maneuvers on the ground battling with style and flow. It’s a complicated message that doesn’t have the same marketing impact as a focused, single themed message.

It’s like saying this is a fictional horror movie, but there is the one part that’s a family documentary…

As a rider, I feel that flatland is part of BMX and that flatland should always be considered part of BMX, but as for marketing, It’s just different. Even within the BMX community.

Just look at the print mags…

I don’t think a great deal structurally has changed since the x games, sure the battle format creates a different feel and one arguably that may draw the viewer in. I just watched the Dew Tour finals last weekend live, lot of crashes, I guess the question is… Would having Dew tour involve flatland really help flatland, or would it just help a few riders bank balances?

The current battle format is confrontational, I’m sure TV could make a show out of that..

Circle of Balance, Voodoo Jam, etc. is proof that the battle mode does increase the excitement for the viewer. TV will definitely use that to make the story for a show. If flatland does make it into the Dew Tour, it would help a bit. Any kind of TV coverage is good for exposure.

A few riders might get paid for a couple years while they try it out, but unless the issue of airs/wrecks vs. style is resolved, flatland will be dropped and we’re back to the drawing board.

When a big series drops you, it’s hard to convince another entity to pick you up. I can only imagine trying to get a major sponsor for an event or TV show after the Dew tour dropped flatland. “You guys didn’t work out at Dew Tour, didn’t work out in X-games-obviously they don’t see you as profitable, why should we?”

Look what happened even within BMX after we left the X-games. Other BMX specific (no TV involved) events started dropping flatland from the program. That’s our own BMX family kicking us out of the house!

Basically, we need to find a place where flatland can grow for the long term. A place where people can appreciate style and flow.Flatland does awesome in clubs around the world! A lot of flatland events have break dancing as a half time show. There’s a relationship there that seems to be positive. A lot of the plywood hoods were breakers. I’ve seen some riding in art galleries. From my observations, flatland has been way more successful on it’s own or in these types of venues.

Music, art, street culture, beach culture (check out Venice beach), club scene, etc. seems like its way more suited for flatland, than trying to sell it with high flying wrecks.

I would say the BMX Worlds is the exception, because that’s a BMX extravaganza. It’s a BMX freestyle festival. So flatland has a place there. It’s for the global bmx community! Flatland still has a room in their house. HA! HA!

Go check out: http://www.diversiontv.com/

Part 3 tommorow…

Part 2 of Bobbys flatchat is ready to go, call it an intermission break from all that reading, a good friend of mine, Shane Badman sent in this new video last night, great stuff from the badman!!! Let us know what you think of this? He’s riding like a machete!!

Shane Badman Winter 2008/9 from Shane Badman on Vimeo.

Bobby Carter is one of the few riders currently on the scene that’s probably been around as long as I have. Bobby’s infamous for his video directing for Diversion Video magazine. He has now made the natural progression to DiversionTV.com, a video rental site for extreme sports. Anytime hanging out with Bobby is a good time, this guy is one of the most switched on riders i’ve ever met, during this flatchat we talk about a variety of factors that could be amounted to “looking at flatland from the bigger picture”.. Working in Hollywood has naturally done Bobby a lot of favours with regard to filmwork and his approach to it, he’s also a very skilled flat rider, without further a due lets get the ball rolling.. (WORLDWIDE)

interview conducted over past few weeks..

FM in bold text

BC plain text

Lets start then?

What’s been going on with Diversion TV, the site was up for a while, then the site didnt work for a while?

We had to build the site again from scratch! The new site is much stronger and has a lot more functionality that the old one!

Mac Support being one of the main enhancements!

Mac support thats awesome!! How has the site been recieved from the extreme sports market? I mean this is much bigger than just flatland videos on there?

Independent producers are really happy about this new opportunity. Props Visual is fully supporting us. We have the entire collection online. All the video magazine issues, MegaTours, and Road Fools. In the skateboard scene, Satori Movement and other skate video makers are also participating. Filmmakers can get worldwide distribution for their all their new and classic videos!

That’s killer Props are involved, groundworks is a classic!!! What projects are you personally bringing to the table?

The entire Diversion Video Magazine Series is available and also the newest video Made in: Thailand is also available now.

How long has Diversion TV taken you to get off the ground? Is this your full time job

The idea started in 2004. Right now it’s more than a full time job, it’s a full overtime job! HA! HA!

(interview gets delayed..)

Sorry Bobby, been busy times!!

Back on the interview…How do you feel about the shift from DVD to web streaming videos? I know you are a collector…

It’s basically a natural progression of technology and humans adapting to it. We are moving from the industrial age to the infomation age. Video can be distributed cheaply all over the world. Much cheaper and faster than sending a DVD through the mail. In the information age video collections are being maintained in cyberspace! How do you feel about it?

Well…..I look at last week for example,great edits from Sam, Dez, Hiro, Pete B, and they are forgotten already. I guess the consumer is in charge really, I like having a DVD, especially ones where riders have worked on their parts for a long time. I see it from both sides, just the digest, spit out process I’m not a fan of…. Well……I miss the DVD days, just having the physical DVD and packaging, the “timeless” factor, look at last week, a great week for online edits… And already forgotten, spat out and now waiting for the next fix…. Something has been lost don’t you think?

Something has been lost and gained. What’s gained is the speed and accessibility to content. Somebody in Mexico can watch riders in Japan. What’s lost is the art and presentation of the long form video. Diversion TV is bringing that back. Especially those who make the video as the product as opposed to a video to sell hardgoods.

Having a DVD case is like having a piece of art physical art, but I think economics rule on that point and new school people don’t care as much.

The heroes of today are much different and have a shorter life span than heroes of yesterday. Information flows too fast. Perhaps there are too many heroes??? This is deep and is not specific to flatland or BMX, but other industries like music also are experiencing this effect too!

Interesting comment… too many heroes.. care to elaborate a lil more on this Bobby?

Back in the day, you had Dorkin’ and Baco and a few other videos release by a team. Each series released 1 video a year and there was very little overlap in the riders that appeared in the videos.

Dorkin’ was Kevin, Chase, Mark, and the Crew. Baco was Chad Degroot, Hilson, Rye, and their crew. Once you got a video you watched the same thing over and over until the next year. There were fewer riders being watched. Fewer heroes…These days anyone with a few dope combos can be broadcast over the internet. With so many riders in the limelight, for such a short time, it’s hard to stand out. If Denes Katona came out in a Dorkin’ video 13 years ago doing all those crazy whiplash combos, he would be super famous. Instead, he was in a short online video, with a lot of other short videos with good riding lined up right behind it. I think information travels too fast to build up someone as a hero like back in the day. There are also many other factors regarding the progression of tricks and people’s expectations of progression that play into it too. Practically nothing is thought to be impossible and the formative years are pretty much over. Tricks are mostly variations as opposed to brand new positions on the bike.

Good points…Would you say the disadvantage of the modern era is that tricks get loss, just so much choice of what to watch, that of course is where Diversion TV comes in I guess, kind of bridges the two in a way. How has response to the site been so far?

I think there’s a fundamental difference between long form videos and short clips. It’s a different experience all together.

Long form has the ability to tell an in depth story about a rider or send a message. Short form is more like “trick of the day”, advertisement, or news. It’s like watching a movie vs. watching the news. Some of the “web edits” are getting good in terms of editing,videography, and length. “Project A” is a good example. With so much work and time put into that kind of video, it has a much higher value than your average “look what I did today!” type video. As more videos like “Project A” are released in the future, they will have a home at Diversion TV.

“Project A” definitely had substance as well as quality, do you see Diversion TV eventually taking the lead in terms of exclusives, at the moment seems like you are building the archives…

The end goal is to maintain the largest online library of full length action sports videos. (New and classic!)

Right now, Made in: Thailand is exclusive to Diversion TV. Any long form video I make in the future will be exclusive to Diversion TV. Expense of manufacturing DVDs is usually the prohibiting factor with long form video. With Diversion TV, all you have to do is make one copy and we do the rest for you. Filmmakers please come through!

That’s awesome. Flatlanders are slow to catch on, in the future I can see exclusive videos and video parts dropping on DiversionTV. Riders and editors presumably would get a cut of that?

The content providers get paid from each rental. They also receive a login on the site where they can see all their videos online and how many people are renting their videos in real time, and how much money they’ve earned.

This way the video makers can get paid to support their art and the viewers get high quality content for much cheaper and faster than a physical DVD.

On top of that all their classic videos will also be available. Diversion TV can breathe life into classics that are just sitting on a shelf collecting dust. BMX Plus! Magazine has already stepped up and offered their video classics on Diversion TV; BMX Plus! Magazine has already stepped up and offered their video classics on Diversion TV; Freestyle’s Raddest Tricks, RadTV the sequel, 101 tricks pt 1 and 101 tricks pt 2.

Wow… 101 tricks was legendary growing up. Sounds like your project has really gathered shape. Are there any deals going on your site? I see the standard rate to hire a video is $2.99

New schoolers will be able to see roots of modern day freestyle riding. (Ramps and flatland!) Old schoolers can reminisce.

The best deal on the site is the monthly subscription. For $9.95 you can have unlimited access to all the videos in the library.

That’s about half the cost of 1 DVD and right now there’s over 160 videos available and that number is increasing!

I think it’s really important to show the new school the history side, hence why I have so many old school edits on flatmatters….that’s a good deal on the videos, any more plans in the near future for exclusive edits similar to the made in Thailand edit?

I have footage from Okinawa and Kobe Japan. That will be the next release from me. The Kobe flatland scene is really strong as well as in Okinawa. Okinawa is a group of islands off the south coast of Japan. It’s Mr. Miyagi’s homeland in the Karate Kid part 2. I didn’t see Tomi Village though!

Yo, Michael Jackson just died out here in LA a few hours ago.

I heard, really sad, all over the news here, infact I think the news broke here 45 mins before LA, crazy!!! Japanese scene stuff is always good, what do you like about Japan Bobby? You go there a lot, ladies? Haha

Yes, actually Michael Jackson is the ultimate example of what I’m saying about how heroes were made back in the day vs. today. He came out when you had to buy the physical record. Record labels were determining who gets published and who doesn’t. Out of all the talent that came through, they picked out the best and pumped it out. These days recording equipment is cheap and you can get music from all sorts of artists on the internet. It’s harder to stand out from the crowd. Information about artists flows so fast the labels are pumping out various artists left and right and people don’t get the lime light like they used to.

Japan has everything. A lot of Flatlanders, nice girls, girls that ride, a safe environment, and convenience. All that in together means you can have a lot fun!

Nice analogy Bobby..,.All this talk of Diversion TV, what about riding? I take it you don’t much time anymore….

I’m still riding, probably 4 – 5 of 7 days a week. I go to the parking lot, like other people go to the gym after work.

I try to get a 1-2 hour session in during the week and 5-6 hours on the weekend. Weekend sessions are usually with the other LA riders. Just learned a death truck combo the other day. I’ve been trying to increase my skills on the back wheel lately. I will admit that my mindset is a bit different now than back in the day.

I know you’re still riding hardcore like day 1…

That’s rad your still into it though Bobby after all these years, last year I really enjoyed the process of being dialed for contests, being dialed helps you progress a lot faster if the tricks your trying are in anyway close to what you are dialing. Othertimes I just enjoy pulling a combo once a day and making it different everyday, flatlands all about you. That’s why contests are so hard, cause then it’s not about you. There are so many factors. Getting back to you, how does the LA scene compare to how you imagined it would when you first moved out from Michigan? I remember you saying, you can take the weather for granted after couple of years out there…

The weather is awesome out here. Arriving from Michigan, I didn’t want to waste one day of good weather. After a while, you get used to it and get lazy. The “Tomorrow I’ll ride hard. I’m going to chill out at the session today” type of mentality comes through. Sometimes the weather is a motivating factor in riding. When you can’t ride because of snow and rain, you ride much more focused when the weather is good.

The LA scene has changed so much since 1999, when I first moved here. In 1999, there were a lot of top pros that lived out here and a lot of riders from all over the world came through to visit. CFBs, B3’s, and X-trials kept people coming out. Since X-games dropped flatland in 2003, we rarely get any visitors and a lot of Pros moved back East or back to their home countries. There’s still a handful of riders out here representing, but it’s not the flatland mecca it was when I first moved here or before that in 1996. I think 1996-97 was probably the peak for LA being the world’s hotspot for flatland. Now there’s a lot of places around the world that are crackin’ with flatland!

Of all your travels, “worldwide” where do you the most thriving scene? Are contests integral to that?Do you think contests are integral part of a scene thriving, hence japan having a regular contest structure….

Of the places I’ve been to, Kobe is going off, Paris, Hungary, Brazil, Central America is growing…I know there’s more. Some drop off and others rise up. It’s always changing as people grow up.

In Japan, I think the contest scene does give some of the standout riders something to reach for, a reward for all the hard work they put into riding. However, there are a lot of other contests in Japan that are so relaxed that I wouldn’t really call it a comp. Most of the riders don’t seem to care what place they get, they’re just out there having fun. It’s actually more of an organized jam.

It’s more about just having structured events that bring everyone together that creates a thriving scene. Contests are a lot of stress and jams are just about having fun and exchanging information. The riding level is so high these days, it’s much easier for the average rider to participate in a jam and go away motivated.

It doesn’t seem to me like the contest scene was pushing Kevin and Chase in York. They were pushing each other to progress, like mad scientists in the lab.

Same with Chad DeGroot, Rye and the Baco crew. They would ride together, then go fool around in the city.

It’s more just being able to ride with a group of people regularly that keeps people motivated and progressing.

Having a central spot is also key. In Los Angeles, there’s no central spot. Even though there may be about 15-20 riders, we’re so spread out, we end up riding alone or in groups of 2 or 3. Hollywood Steve told me that he would show up to Huntington Beach parking lot around 1996 and there would a ton of riders out there all time. Also, the riders here don’t get to hang out together without going through a lot of trouble. Off the court, being able to hang with a crew, talk about riding, new tricks, etc. also helps build the scene.

I think the energy a group creates when riders are together creates a thriving scene.

Flatchat with Bobby Carter Part 2 continues tommorow

Go check out: http://www.diversiontv.com/

Martti Kuoppa’s kickflip competiton on globalflat, is a great thing for the progression of flat, this new trick from Dez is sick, but is it kickflip or pressure flip? 🙂

Theres a reason to buy props, out any day, Dane Beardsley has a profile. Personally looking forward to this one…

Shane Badman just posted this on the ever improving flatlandaustralia blog, good times down under.

Colony BMX from Anthony Shorten on Vimeo.

http://flatlandaustralia.blogspot.com/